Hayek on Socialism

Good job he died before the rise of China’s Totalitarian Capitalism & the debacle of the western champions of neoliberalism. It is interesting to see people who has clearly benefited from what is left of a Welfare State, or better yet, the Great Society, defend he who argues that just distribution is impossible. Clearly there are limits to the Welfare State most of the them, however, are ideological rather than “scientific”.

A part he left out though, the only way for a central authority to “know all the facts” is to reduce your liberty.

@NunoMigueI
Collective success would have to be “forced”? ROTFLMAO

Yes, it would be inhumane to ask people to work for an actual share of the profits for their work, instead of a FORCED, IMPOSED labor value of FAR LESS. LOL

In my company there was not a SINGLE participant who didn’t walk away wealthy. There was also not one SINGLE complaint of being “forced”.

Your propaganda is ridiculous and weak at best.

@1969lincolnosiris If you want to get together with other people and invest your money in a collectively owned company that’s fine, then your reward will be relative to your share of the investment, that’s a business strategy like any other. Just don’t advocate forcing it on everybody else. And of course everyone gets rewarded the same in colectives, that’s the very definition of socialism

@technoviking
Actually they can but I’m speaking more in broader terms

@NunoMigueI
You are NOT rewarded the same. Just because decisions are made collectively, how is there less incentive to work hard?

I worked for a collectively owned company and we ALL got rewarded when we worked harder. We took the company from a worth of $14 Million to a worth of $155 Million. If it were owned by someone else, we would have gotten ZERO reward for our hard work.

Your thinking is fundamentally flawed, JUST like Hayek’s.

@FRSFreeStateNow This is obviously the case at least some of the time, unless you’re arguing that local groups of people can build massive infrastructure more efficiently than non-local groups.

@1969lincolnosiris Socialism DOES depend on a central authority. Once it is given to the central govt even when it is established through a democratic process this central entity can than legally take charge. However once a central entity is given the power to act in a collective way and interest of the people, it ALWAYS leads to serfdom NO matter how well the original intentions where to begin with. Hitler was elected democratically and took a turn for the very worst.

@1969lincolnosiris That’s right but since there are no purely socialist countries, in the sense of the ultimate goal of communism, where people organize themselves in little cooperative communities and the government doesn’t exist, one must conclude that’s not an attainable or realistic goal for the whole of society. In any case, socialism defeats itself sooner or later by removing the incentive to effort. There’s no way a society is going to hold if everyone is rewarded the same.

@NunoMigueI
It doesn’t matter.

Socialism is usually democratically planned by the public. You cannot get more “decentralized” than that. Decentralization was the ONLY motivation in forming a left-wing in France, in the first place. They needed to break up the plutocracy, because all of the wealth accumulated at the top.

EDUCATE don’t indoctrinate.

@1969lincolnosiris

He went to the University of Vienna and obtained doctorates in law and political science, he authored several books, and he won the Nobel Peace Prize in the field of economics.

True. Central planning is impossible.

@ShinEmperor
I didn’t say you were advocating anything, I’m just saying what you said no other socialist could make a better argument for Big Government. Then what you just laid out whether you believe in Socialist Big Government or not.

@FRSFreeStateNow First, I wasn’t advocating ANY form of government… just pointing out the obvious.. that every day people don’t know enough about economics, geopolitics, other cultures.. and so on to be able to make decisions on those issues and that is essentially where I stand. Yes, government is corrupt and incompetent. But the average citizen really isn’t much better. When you look at the statistics. People waste tons of money, make assumptions about all kinds of things…

@ShinEmperor
You just laid out the argument for the need for Big Government, the need for government to protect people from themselves. No other socialist could make your argument any better. Which I totally disagree with.

@FRSFreeStateNow In all fairness the citizens of modern societies can barely point out their OWN nation on a map.. never-mind understand the global scope of the world they live in. Most people on a daily bases don’t do what is in their best interest. I’m not saying government knows better, not at all… just kinda.. pointing at the 800 pound gorilla in the room… People themselves rarely know what is “best”.. how could they? They have neither the expertise or clairvoyance to know what is right

@Malthus0 ahhh I see thanks for pointing that out man

@GasserVsGoodyball Hayek was not denying that a redistribution of wealth is possible (even before the internet). He is denying that an economy could be run maintaining that distribution on an ongoing basis. As prices are meaningless unless they arise from market exchange, which is the same institution which necessarily leads to inequalities in income as part of its functioning. Accept the market we lose our ‘just’ distribution but move towards planning & we lose economic coordination.

@Malthus0 I suppose, but also he talks about not being able to justly distribute due to a lack of knowledge , I mean practically everything can be hooked up to the internet nowadays dont you think? I don’t mean to sound totalitarian or anything but with this great advancement dont you think that a government could somehow organize something like a mega-audit?

@GasserVsGoodyball 1985.Although if you are insinuating that the internet could solve the problems of non factor market socialism then you would be mistaken.As this ‘knowledge’ he is talking about is dispersed in time as well as space, involves information that can not be articulated or only partially articulated,& information that is both subjective & tacit in the sense that it is only discovered & used in the context of market activity.In fact the internet makes economic planning harder.

when was this recorded? I would be willing to bet before the internet was concieved

@1969lincolnosiris You’re an ignorant fuckwit.

@harj2009
One form of socialism which is a very diverse Political Ideology not just an Economic Policy. Is Government Subsidization of business, thats what Corporate Welfare is. And you might not like that fact as a socialist because your anti Corporate Welfare but so am I. But thats what it is.

@FRSFreeStateNow nope subsidies to big oil , farm and giving contracts to Halliburton.Bailing out banks with no strings attached is all Crony Capitalism .
In Socialism the govt only gives money to companies which are owned by the state, and any money made by the state owned companies goes to the tax payer

@harj2009
I just told what Corporate Welfare is, apparently you don’t know what it is.